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[b]BLUF: Would it be better to build rapport in other ways (and if so, in what ways) than to try to emulate the O3 model in a "sneaky" fashion? [/b]

MT says that O3s should be weekly. My boss says that O3s should be monthly.

I don't want to outright defy my new boss just yet (I usually wait until I have about 6 mos under my belt with a new boss before I start being a renegade!) so I was thinking I could "sneak them in" -- kind of do ad hoc calls here and there, scheduled only on my calendar but not theirs, but still covering the same things, with the goal being building rapport, giving feedback and disseminating information.

My concern is that the MT model says that note-taking is important for specific reasons, as is the communication that the unwavering scheduled nature of the O3s is important as well. (i.e., this is imporant and not to be missed) So when I look at "sneaking them in" I may be accomplishing the rapport building aspect but I would likely be missing out on the "this is important/not to be missed" aspect.

The feedback stuff can happen on-the-fly as we go throughout our week and I do think there's merit to delivering feedback timely (in proximity to the events being given feedback) so I'm not terribly concerned about that aspect. It's moreso the "this is important and not to be missed."

What I'm finding out from the current managers (my new peers) under my soon-to-be-new boss is that:

* they are consistently late to all meetings
* one manager completely blew off the first O3 with her new employee
* one manager has never conducted an O3 with one of his employees (over four months now)

I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of conducting myself in such an atrocious manner, that's for darn sure! And I'm thinking that just by being on time for scheduled appointments with them, by scheduling times to chat with them (even if it's only as a group if that's all I'll be 'allowed' to do) and making sure to do everything in my power to avoid having to reschedule something will speak volumes.

HOWEVER, it's kind of like "if they aren't told 'this is new' they may not even notice, and just take it for granted." I want to convey "YOU ARE IMPORTANT TO ME" and the O3 would be a great way to do that. With my boss tying my hands in that regard, I'm not sure how else to communicate that.

Ideas, thoughts, comments, suggestions ... ?

jhack's picture

So you're going to be professional even if they're not. You can fix that when they work for you!

This was discussed previously, although there were no definitive conclusions in the thread:

http://www.manager-tools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2873

Do them weekly. Call them something else ("individual status updates" one week, "career planning discussion" the next, "One on One" the third week of the month, etc). Write up your notes after the meeting, on your time.

Doing them ad hoc means your folks won't be prepared.

If you don't do O3's weekly, they lose their power.

John

bflynn's picture

What John said. Do them weekly. You and your directs will have better relationships and that will help you be more effective in your work.

O3s are an enabler, not specifically part of being effective. They make it easier to be effective.

If you find that your boss is worried about you talking with your directs too often, then there's a different problem going on.

Brian

jhack's picture

bflynn makes a good point: You must improve your relationship with your boss. (Aren't there some podcasts on that? :roll: )

If you know what's important to your boss, you can make sure you're nailing those. Much slack is given to those who outperform.

But you knew that...

John

ashdenver's picture

[quote="jhack"]Do them weekly. Call them something else ("individual status updates" one week, "career planning discussion" the next, "One on One" the third week of the month, etc). Write up your notes after the meeting, on your time.
[/quote]
Ooooh, I really like that!! Now I just need to come up with a fourth (and fifth) heading to fill in the other weeks. Heh.

US41's picture

US41 agrees with John (as usual). Additionally...

* Great managers are judicious in the input they take from their boss as to how they manage their teams.
- He will only try to micromanage if you inform him to that level
- You have to protect your boss from his tendency to try to do your job
- What he doesn't know and produces awesome results for him is your best choice.

* I recommend you hold the one on ones anyway. Call them something else .. or don't. Just do it anyway. The same for all other tools you will choose to practice: Just manage your folks your way. Don't run everything by your boss. In fact, run almost nothing by your boss ever.

* All managers should remember this when dealing with their own directs.
- Don't try to tell them how many times they meet with their folks.
- Dictating the road to take instead of the result you want is often futile
- If you avoid this behavior, when you _do_ pass down policy, they are more likely to follow it
- If you micromanage a lot, your managers will master disobedience and secrecy

ashdenver's picture

[quote="US41"]Just manage your folks your way. Don't run everything by your boss. In fact, run almost nothing by your boss ever.[/quote]
My colleague just transitioned to a management position under this guy about 6 weeks ago and she has tried that approach. It has resulted in so many hand-slaps, I think she's on the verge of a nervous breakdown. (Then again, she's a very different person than I am and I think she tends to take things personally & call them hand-slaps where I might not.)

US41's picture

[quote="ashdenver"][quote="US41"]Just manage your folks your way. Don't run everything by your boss. In fact, run almost nothing by your boss ever.[/quote]
My colleague just transitioned to a management position under this guy about 6 weeks ago and she has tried that approach. It has resulted in so many hand-slaps, I think she's on the verge of a nervous breakdown. (Then again, she's a very different person than I am and I think she tends to take things personally & call them hand-slaps where I might not.)[/quote]

Of course I have no first hand information, but after reading your comments above, I am left with the following suspicions:

* She keeps confessing her sins to her boss (running things past him after she does them)
* She might not be cut out for management.
* He might be a terrible boss and eliminating him from the equation through a move might be worth it.

I cannot imagine a boss telling me not to meet with my folks one on one. That seems insane. My boss doesn't tell me to not gossip at the water cooler. Why would my boss try to control my schedule of meetings with my folks - especially if we are talking about 4 or 5 hours of the week? That's nuts!

One on ones are critical to my success as a manager. I will not go without them. I will have them, and I will go to the mattresses over it. If I am ordered to not do them on pain of being fired, I will job shop.

This is one of the very few situations where I would say to my boss, "Unless you are going to fire me for doing it, I am going to keep doing it. I believe that deeply in this practice." If they throw down the gauntlet, I will be a professional and concede... and then go home and light up my network and begin finding a better boss.

[b]
WARNING:[/b]

Do not walk into your boss's office and declare your stand on one on ones to be non-negotiable. Agree not to do them, and then do them anyway and call them something else. If your boss comes after you again, market what you are doing. Have some example results ready to show. Show how they are not impacting performance negatively. Post here and ask us to write bullets for you to help justify the practice. Ask us for testimonials. You have vast resources here at the MT forums. Send Mike and Mark an email begging for advice. Make a professional, unemotional case. I would never speak that way to my boss unless all possible options were expired and I was totally unable to get around it. If I had a mole on my team ratting me out, I'd just stop them with the suspect and continue with everyone else in a worst case scenario.

Do not do confrontations with your boss. You will lose. You need to be ready to lose. That's what "falling on your sword" means - it means you are ready to be fired over an issue of management.

But remember, keep the paycheck and job shop. Don't spin up your boss so bad that he terminates your employment in real time during an argument. When your boss gives you a direct order, the proper response is "Consider it done." Then either leave or stay and deal with it.

[b]END WARNING[/b]

ashdenver's picture

Thanks for the chuckle - for some reason, your post made me chuckle, US41. But in a good way. I do take seriously what ya'll have said and I appreciate the offer of future assistance and guidance in this matter.

My colleage just shared with me the PowerPoint she used during her first team meeting. In it, she shares her Regular Meetings slide:

* Team Meetings - Weekly
* Team Monday Morning Huddle (15 mins) - Weekly
* Individual Backlog (productivity) Meetings - Biweekly
* Individual One on One - Monthly
* Individual Performance Appraisals - Annually

I figure I can sneak in one more bullet point:

* Individual Career Development Meetings - Monthly

With the productivity thing being biweekly (and sanctioned from on-high), that gives me 26 weekly meetings. Add in the monthly O3s and that's another 12 meetings. Throw in another monthly "Career Development" meeting and that's another 12 meetings for a total of 50 meetings. Given vacations on both sides of the equation, this seems reasonable enough - especially since I consider "monthly = every four weeks" not "once per calendar month." Heh.

I'm feeling pretty good about this now. The true test will be in the next few weeks, beginning with this Friday's meeting with the Big Boss Man.