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Hi,

I work for a large consumer products multi-national company and I am not pleased with my compensation. So I have applied to jobs in the market and received an offer. The compensation of the offer is an significant increase compared to my current position.

I have a 1-1 with my current manager and would like to provide them with the opportunity to provide a counter offer - with a view that if they come close, I will be happy to stay. I love my job, just not the pay! The reason for writing this is that I seek some guidance in how to approach this - some rather basic questions

1) The current meeting is scheduled for Friday (in two days), I am then taking Monday & Tuesday as vacation. Should I await until Wed?

2) Any suggesting wording that I should use. I would like to prevent it appearing as a threat.

3) Any general do's and don'ts - e.g. should I mention figures? should I mention who the offer is from?

4) Any other advice?

Some background:
- I am managed remotely, therefore the 1-1 will be on the phone
- I am currently in a project where I am working closely with my manager boss and his boss.
- The project that I am working on is due to close in a few weeks where I am expected to receive a bonus (decided on a case by case basis)
- The offer is from a competitor and I am in sales

Thanks in advance for your help

Regards
B

ehyde111's picture

B-

A few things I can say.
First, be prepared to take the other offer if your present employer doesn't meet your expectations (and however you can, make sure you still have the other offer)

I would also go in asking for something specific and be candid about your other offer. It is very difficult when a direct comes in asking for 'more'.

Finally, a lot of this depends on your relationship with your boss. I've heard strong advice against this (not sure if it was on MT or not). Once you put this on the table, your boss will on some level question your loyalty.

If you had to make the choice today, would you stay at your present company with your present salary or change jobs? The answer to that question may help you in your decision.

Good Luck!

ehyde111's picture

B-

I've been thinking a lot about this post.

When you talk to your boss, make sure you tell him/her why you deserve more money -- not just that someone else will pay you more. I'd review my resume and prepare to discuss accomplishments.

This last point is meant as feedback.

You've applied for a position where you appear to be interested in the salary and second, the job. If you don't accept this job and the hiring manager finds out, your intentions will be questioned and your reputation hurt a bit.

I know this has happened to me. The people who have interviewed at my firm just to gain a negotiating advantage at their company will never work for me.

Again, good luck!

thaGUma's picture

B
Be prepared to leave. However you dress it up this is an ultimatum and it will sour relationships 9 times out of 10. In six months you will not love your job quite so much. You were able to live with the old package. If the new job is better then leave and do not expect a counter offer.
1. Do it as early as possible. Do not wait for 1 on 1. If you want a counter offer you need time to (hopefully) get it and still keep your other offer live. You should enter into the leaving interview with the other job only awaiting a phone call to finalise acceptance.
2. “I was not happy with the package at my last review. The market is willing to pay more as I have found and have an offer. I feel the company undervalues me and although I dearly love the job, it is with deepest regret that I must submit my resignation”. Do not ask for a counter offer – I think asking will reflect badly. Make them aware that you are leaving with extreme sadness.
3. Give them an indication of the package. It is a signifiacant difference and they will in all liklihood not wish to match.
4. Get your house in order. Again assume you are leaving as it will make you feel more confident in any discussions and in most cases the result is to leave.

You need to be 110% certain that you can turn the offer into an acceptance. Get all paperwork and make sure you are happy. If you do not fit the new job life becomes less enjoyable.

To be repetitious, get into the mindset of someone departing as that is most likely the outcome of any discussion. It may yield a counter offer, but then you will run the risk of damaged relationships arising from a distrust on both sides. Do not expect your bosses to say “ wow B we have looked into this we want to keep you and we realise we were wrong and we will match the offer you have if you stay”.

Chris

P.S. And next year when you are told ‘Hey B, we gave you a considerable bump up last year and so this year will be lower”?

kmadams88's picture

[b][quote]Some background:
- I am managed remotely, therefore the 1-1 will be on the phone
- I am currently in a project where I am working closely with my manager boss and his boss.
- The project that I am working on is due to close in a few weeks where I am expected to receive a bonus (decided on a case by case basis)
- The offer is from a competitor and I am in sales [/quote][/b]

Something else that you may need to factor in and be prepared for if you are going to work for a competitor, it is not uncommon for a company to terminate the relationship immediately. You may be escorted out of premises at the time you make them aware that you are leaving for a competitor. This is not uncommon in large organizations.

tlhausmann's picture

[quote="kmadams88"][b][quote]You may be escorted out of premises at the time you make them aware that you are leaving for a competitor. [/quote]

This is indeed the case. Your boss may just say "Sounds like a great offer! In fact, you should take it and clean out your desk by 3 pm."

Why not make the case for a raise WITHOUT letting them know about the offer?

jhack's picture

Using an offer as leverage for a big raise is a mistake.

If your current employer gives you a counter offer, you may stay for a while, but they will never trust you and your career will likely sputter out.

If they escort you out, and you haven't done your professional homework (evals, etc) then you will have burned a bridge unnecessarily.

In any case, fishing for a counter offer will be seen as bad form.

So decide: Do you want to take the new job? Then take it. If you want to stay, wait until the successful completion of the project, then tell them what you want. They will either give it to you or they won't. If they don't then move on.

If the new company can't wait for this to play out, tell them you can't accept their offer at this time. It may still be available later. It may not.

John

PS: I never make counter offers. They never work.

kklogic's picture

[quote="tlhausmann"][quote="kmadams88"][b][quote]You may be escorted out of premises at the time you make them aware that you are leaving for a competitor. [/quote]

This is indeed the case. Your boss may just say "Sounds like a great offer! In fact, you should take it and clean out your desk by 3 pm."

[b]Why not make the case for a raise WITHOUT letting them know about the offer?[/[/b]quote]

Exactly what I was going to suggest as well. Make the case for more comp based on your performance - not on a threat. I would not even bring up the other offer - even to show that it's "what the market will bear."

I would also like to add that I am always cautious of jumping ship just for money. If you are happy with your job, your company and your boss - that's worth quite a few dollars in my book.

gusmac's picture

Thanks for all the valuable advice. Very much appreciated.

One thing that I forgot to provide is a link to a previous post regarding compensation. Here it is below - it is good background to the discussion.

http://www.manager-tools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2725&highlight=

A while ago, I escalated the issue regarding my compensation to my boss. It was a clear escalation and unfortunately nothing has come of it. I have discussed it with my manager, but no serious/concrete outcomes.

There are instances within my company of counter offers and it is generally viewed that is the only way to get increases. That said, I believe that you are 100% correct and that I have to be 100% sure on the offer prior to discussing it with my manager.

It is a real shame, as I am so happy with all other aspects for my current employment, just not the compensation.

Please continue to share your comments on this as I appreciate your views. Especially if you have any specific advice based on the questions that I outlined above.

MattJBeckwith's picture

[quote="jhack"]PS: I never make counter offers. They never work.[/quote]

I totally agree.

I have seen so many other managers come back with a counter offer to keep the person only to have that person leave in a few months anyway. The other people on the team know about it and some people think that they way to get more money is to give an offer.

I have found great success with, "Wow, that sounds like a great offer. I'll miss you."

More than once, however, I was able to convince the person to stay, but never with more money.

HMac's picture

This is a general observatiomn - and it's not about you, gusmac.

If you have to go to your employer to discuss your compensation, something's wrong:

[list]The company is not worth your continued commitment, and you should leave, OR[/list:u]

[list]You have inflated sense of the worth of your contribution, OR[/list:u]

[list]You are in the wrong job for your actual skills and they're not being recognized and rewarded[/list:u]
These things always end badly when the employee has to raise the comp issue...whether they end badly right away (soured relationship, company feels like they've been threatened, company says "great - get out") or they end up bady in the future (counteroffers are only short-term).

Ultimately this is your choice. Think about what you really want - and pursue it.

-Hugh

jhack's picture

The flip side of Hugh's point is worth noting: the discussion should be about role and responsibilities first, performance included.

There are times when a discussion of compensation is appropriate. This discussion shouldn't come out of the blue, though, and it should be in the context of sustained performance, changing responsibilities and/or title, etc.

John

US41's picture

[quote="gusmac"]I have a 1-1 with my current manager and would like to provide them with the opportunity to provide a counter offer [/quote]

Forget it. When you tell your manager that you went job shopping and have an offer on the table, you just resigned. You are all done as of that moment. They may not walk you out. They may even respond with a counter offer. But from that moment that you held your boss over a barrel, you are a marked man.

Saying you have an offer from somewhere else is blackmail - threatening to leave unless you get your way.

They will not forget it. Most people who accept counter offers are torched or torch themselves within 180 days of accepting it.

If you want to leave, just leave on good terms.

BTW, I disagree with Hugh. I have been promoted many times in my company, and some of them were unexpected, but some I went and asked for. After all, what boss wants someone in a responsible role who doesn't want the job. There is nothing wrong with offering up a plan that shows you in a leadership role or presenting your performance when it is markedly superior and then asking for an increase. This has been successful for me in the past - and I respond to it as well as a boss.

However, if you can't present measurable superiority in performance to your peers, I'm going to eat your lunch and make sure you know where you really stand. Especially if the ask is framed around fairness and justice instead of effectiveness, numbers, and performance.

gusmac's picture

Ok. I am back with a status. There are a lot quality feedback here and I thought it would be worth while capturing what I did, thus providing an end to the story.

1) I informed by boss that I had an offer on the table and that I was seriously concidering taking it and a response was due by the end of the week.
2) He is a High D and simply asked for information on the offer and then commited to come back with a counter offer. Short and snappy and to the point.
3) The offer that I had received from potential new employers was 55% increase on my current salary and my current employer came back with 48% increase counter-offer. The discussion was purely financial and nothing about role or job statisfaction as this is not an issue.
4) I took the 48% and I am remaining with the company.

The discussion was not at all heated, nor did I at any time feel that I was putting them in an unconfortable position. The discussion was open and purely business.

In fact, I was surprised with some things - which were:

A) We are in a critical part of the project and when informing my boss that I appreciate the timings are not great to raise this topic - he disagreed and suggested that it was the perfect time to raise the topic for me due to my role. Business is business and no time is a good time.

B) My boss informed me that he thought what I was doing was perfect and that it was the only way to get a pay increase in this company. He has seen it work too many times.

C) The VP also praised the move and communicated how frustrated that this is the only mechanism to get pay increases in the corporation.

So in conclusion. It is still early days, but I have had a very positive result. I know this goes against most of the feedback above - but I don't say that this will work for everyone, but on this occassion - extremely positive.

Regards

A

HMac's picture

gusmac - congratulations on a good outcome. There are always exceptions to the most common experience, and yours may be one of them.

-Hugh

AManagerTool's picture

Congratulations.

Please check back with us in 6 months and let us all know how you are doing.

SteveSherry's picture