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[b]How do I overcome the negative stereotypes associated with being classified as a "New Millennial" by my 54 year old SVP?[/b]
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In the usual M-T style, I have done my best to detail the context and background of my post for you. [b]Cliff notes are at the bottom.[/b] I have been reading the forums for over a year now but never posted before. I am posting this because I truly value this community’s input.
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[u][b]The Situation[/b][/u]
My SVP accepted my invitation to a one-on-one lunch next week to discuss my career development (It was my Boss’ idea). Just yesterday in a casual aside, SVP said "So... career development huh... I'm reading a book on you right now, you're one of those New Millennials … what you need is a coach." The way he said this did not have a positive connotation. I asked the title of the book and he said “I can’t tell you, then you would know what I’m going to say."

[u][b]Background[/b][/u]
To gain some insight that night I picked up Cam Marston’s [i]MOTIVATING THE “What’s in it for me?” WORKFORCE[/i] about managing across the generational divide. The book is a guide for adapting your management approach to each generation from Matures to Boomers, Gen Xers and the New Millennials. I definitely recommend it.

[u]The bad news from the book:[/u] It affirms the generalizations I have always heard regarding Gen Xers and New Millennials. Primarily that they are loyal only to themselves, will change jobs without hesitation if they are not constantly learning (an avg. of every 1.3 years), see no need to “pay their dues” and prioritize their social lives before their careers.

[u]The good news from the book:[/u] As an employer, if you can retain them for 4 years, the chances of them leaving drop exponentially. They are natural early adopters of technology and change since they began using computers at such early ages. They excel at using technology to determine the most efficient way to accomplish a given task.

[u][b]About me[/b][/u]
Today is my 4 year anniversary with my company. In another month, it will be 4 years since I graduated from college. I started with my company as an intern in my junior year of college. What a dream – it’s the pinnacle of our industry. I returned to school for 1 year to finish my degree. Two months before my graduation my supervisor’s boss called me to take his position 1 hour after he turned in his notice. I started managing the department 2 weeks later while finishing my last semester of school (a few hours away).

From the beginning I have managed my department and 2-3 interns. In the last 4 years, I have increased my department’s output by over 200% with the same resources, saved the company over $300k, have a plan to save another 75-100K this year, and continue to take on more responsibility.

[b][u]Where I’m at now[/u][/b]
Point blank: I’ve grown in this position, I see ways I could contribute even more to the company in 2 specific positions and I’m ready (eager, if you will) to take the next step soon.

Earlier this week, I received my best performance review ever from a demanding Boss who I enjoy working for. The highlights were “Just keep doing what you’re doing, I don’t have anything specific for you to work on” | It’s my job to keep you here | I know you’re looking to grow soon but you may have to look outside for the short term | You need to talk to my Boss (the SVP), you should invite him to lunch to discuss your career development - No, I don’t need to be there” I was thrilled with the review (credit goes to the advice of M&M here) but was a little shocked by the “look outside” suggestion.

[u][b]Cliff Notes:[/b][/u]
1) Young person at a Fortune 500 company, 4 years out of school, 4 years managing my department (me + 2-3 interns) with over 200% increase in output, same resources, over $300,000 cost savings

2) I want to take on a new assignment with a team of full-time employees and greater potential for $ contribution to the company

3) Upcoming lunch with SVP to discuss career development. I'm looking to impress this SVP who stereotyped me as a “New Millennial” from what he read in a book – not a good thing in my opinion.

tlhausmann's picture

Congratulations on your first posting...welcome to the MT forums!

From your posting, it sounds like you have grown and done very well under the guidance of your current boss. Assuming your boss backs any suggestions from the SVP you may respectfully ask if there is a interdepartmental team or project that can benefit from your insights.

That is, you are not explicitly asking for a promotion but instead asking how you can best serve the company and apply the skills you have learned in new areas. Consider that the SVP, because of their role, may know of better situations, projects, or committees that would contribute to your [b]long-term [/b]growth in the firm or benefit from your background and skills.

Do not dwell on the SVP comment, stereotypes, or anyone's age. Instead, listen to the SVP at the one-on-one. The SVP and your boss may have already discussed your career growth.

What a great spot to be! Keep us posted on how it goes.

tomas's picture

The SVP is making an effort to understand you, even if it is just by reading a book. You should reciprocate by trying to understand his point of view. He comes from a generation where progression was slower and "paying your dues" was part of the deal.

General approach: Seek to mitigate the negatives and capitalize on the positives.

Most books on generational differences identify both positives and negatives. The positives are that younger employees have good IT skills, are creative, driven and career focused. The negatives are that they want recognition immediately and expect to be given responsibility much sooner than occurred in the past.

To some extent asking about new roles will reinforce the idea theme of not wanting to pay your dues. You can address this by pointing out how long you have been in your current role, and the level of responsibility you were given early on. You can talk about your results, but that will to some extent play into the stereotype of aggression and expecting to be rewarded for performance.

Certainly indicating that you want to progress within the company is good, but there is already an assumption that if you don't get the advancement you want inside the company you will want to leave.

You really don't want to get too hung up on generational stereotypes. Just make sure you listen to your SVP. You can both learn something from eachother, I'm sure.

MTdevotee's picture

tomas - Thank you for the quick reply.

[quote]The SVP is making an effort to understand you, even if it is just by reading a book. You should reciprocate ...[/quote]

Absolutely. I'm going to do so more "homework" today and go back to the section in the book on his generation. Now that I think about it, perhaps I should take it as a compliment that he is reading up on this. Thanks for the new perspective. Maybe I was a little too sensitive to the classification.

[quote]Certainly indicating that you want to progress within the company is good, but there is already an assumption that if you don't get the advancement you want inside the company you will want to leave.[/quote]

Looks like I'll need to stress my desire to spend many more years with the company. As much as I want to grow, I do not want to leave. I love working for this company.

All in all, thanks for the solid advice. I will keep everyone posted.

MTdevotee's picture

tlhausmann - Thanks for the welcome and solid advice.

[quote]...you may respectfully ask if there is a interdepartmental team or project that can benefit from your insights[/quote]

I'm with you here...I think respect is key. My drive will show in the results I have produced. In our meeting, I need to listen and keep a smile on my face even if I don't love what I'm hearing.

[quote]the SVP, because of their role, may know of better situations, projects, or committees that would contribute to your long-term growth in the firm or benefit from your background and skills.[/quote]

Thanks for reminding me of this. As a matter of fact this SVP just took on responsibility for another major division in our company and is doing some housecleaning and re-organizing.

I'm off to do some more "preparation" as suggested from the interview series. I want to be able to articulate why I asked for the meeting and what I'm looking for respectfully.

jhack's picture

Two key things:
1. Prepare a briefing book. You may not need it, but it is the best prep for a meeting with the SVP. See the podcasts on managing during mergers and acquisitions. I speak from experience: this is powerful stuff.
2. He is going to lead the meeting. It's not your meeting.

Don't talk about specific opportunities. Don't make this about you. That will simply reinforce his preconceptions. Be humble, and ask good questions about HIM and his organization. You should try to find out:

- what are his goals and objectives?
- what does he expect of your boss and his teams?
- how does he see your current team's performance and alignment?
- where would he like to take his entire organization?

Simply make it clear that you would like to make a greater contribution to his organization, and to do that, you're looking to better understand his goals and direction. (and if he asks at the start why you wanted the meeting, that's what you say).

He already knows you want more responsibility. Create the opportunity for a meaningful conversation about improving the organization.

John

US41's picture

MTDevotee,

* Don't put older executives on a pedestal and assume they are smarter than you

* Don't draw your self-image from older execs - don't allow them and their temporary moods or expressions define you or unsettle your self-image.

* Don't draw conclusions based on behavior and then act on the conclusions - act on the behavior.

What did he actually do that made you draw the conclusion it was not positive? You may have misinterpreted his behavior as equating to negativity about speaking with someone like you when in reality he was merely tired, or even exhausted, and things are difficult at home right now, and his kids are not doing what he wants, etc etc. His sighs, his eye rolling, etc might just be high D behaviors which don't mean to him what they mean to you. He might simply feel challenged to meet with someone like you and find himself in an unusual situation different from his workday that forces him out of his comfort zone.

Perhaps your SVP meant this... (just a guess):

* You DO need a coach
- because you are clearly smart and talented
- because I am an SVP and I don't want to be that coach
- because I think I see something in you of value and want to get all of the value I can for that paycheck I pay you

* I am amused to be speaking with someone so young who is hard driving
- because I am not young
- because I remember being that way
- because a coach got me where I am today

So, my advice is don't assume you correctly interpreted his behavior. In fact, I would be careful about judging him based on what he says. My boss says all kind of crazy stuff to me. He's called me names, he's raised his voice, etc in the past, but he doesn't mean anything by it - it is merely reflective of our close relationship and my bullheaded nature. I don't take it to heart. I blow it off and focus on what my boss does: reward me, give me big pay raises with other people's money, promote me, market me to execs, invite me into the board room, and say things at big meetings like, "Thank god for US41!"

If I were your SVP's boss, I would say, "Can I give you some feedback? ... When you meet with my junior employees who are up and comers, and you call them names like 'New Mellenial', tell them you read a book about them and know them, and then sigh, roll your eyes, and brush them off, that really sucks and does nothing to help us build our line manager talent into future executives. Dude, help me out here and do something differently? Such as... what?"

I've often had managers who were relatively unskilled at communicating with me and letting me know that they appreciate me, yet they keep promoting me upward and talk up my performance. Yeah, it's not great management on their part, but their behavior, not just their words to me, speaks volumes. Sounds like your boss's behavior is similar and you are also viewed as a talent.

Keep your head held high.

.....

What follows is a rant about the New Mellenial concept:

I think it is unfair to pin a description on a generation such as being fundamentally difficult to trust or disloyal to companies. Companies have over the years almost entirely eliminated their own reputations for trustworthiness by hiring in mostly contract workers they can readily eliminate, loading people up with so much work that almost no time exists for development activities, flattening organizations such that mentoring is almost certainly not going to happen, and laying people off to reduce salary expense every time the economy hiccups despite record profits as a an approach to building shareholder wealth instead of focusing on families, jobs, and serving the community through providing work as well as being profitable.

With companies behaving as they do, it is not surprising that workers are behaving in response the same way - for every action is an equal and opposite reaction. Employees will lay off companies for their bottom line without any guilt because companies will do the same.

Maybe I should write a book called "Your Company is Flat" where I say that over and over through various interesting anecdotes that make the point and the landscape will change.

asteriskrntt1's picture

MT

You are getting a lot of diverse viewpoints here, to which I will add mine. Your SVP is likely an incredibly busy person. He is not meeting with you because he has 36 hours open on his calendar this week. This is serious.

He dropped a big hint that he knows people like you are the future of the company by mentioning the book he is reading (and hey, it should not be too hard for you to google it and figure out the book).

He dropped a bigger hint as to how the meeting is going to go "...what I am going to tell you." So as I think John mentioned, this is his meeting, not yours.

This is a significant networking and building a relationship meeting. Good luck.

adam_h's picture

It sounds like you are doing a great job, so by all means, keep doing what you are doing.

Personally, I would not worry at all about being labeled a "New millenial" or anything else for that matter. Be yourself. There are a lot of people that seem to want to try and group people. I think they do it so that they can make things "Easier," but for whom, I have no idea. Every person is an individual and always will be. And to get the most out of each person, they need to be spoken to and managed individually.

The most success I have had when meeting senior managers has been when I have been honest, self-confident, and had something to propose to them. Whether it was a new project, role, or product that I personally wanted to champion, I found that it was much easier to get the role I wanted when I showed passion, determination, and the fortitutde to go after what I wanted.

Keep doing what you are doing and keep going after the things you want to do and you will do very well indeed! And if you can find out any of the things that "jhack" has mentioned, great. But understand that your SVP may not have all of the answers you are looking for.

WillDuke's picture

I like what everyone above says. I wanted to add that when you said he didn't want to tell you what book because [quote]I can’t tell you, then you would know what I’m going to say. [/quote] I laughed out loud. I think he was being humorous.

I definitely think that Tomas is right. He's reaching out. His time is very valuable and if he's willing to spend it educating himself in a direction that applies to "your generation", and now in fact directly on you then he's saying that you're valuable. That is quite a compliment.

I suggest you reciprocate. Find a book about working with old people. If I'm right about him being humorous this might really tickle his funny bone.

Either way, spend some time looking at the situation through his perspective. Why would he want to meet with a young up-and-comer? What does he benefit? Then ask yourself how you can prepare for those questions and suggestions.

I would suggest you do as much preparation as possible for this meeting. It's not often that you're going to get face-time with someone way up the corporate ladder.

MTdevotee's picture

Well, today is the day. I've spent several hours compiling the Briefing as directed in the M&A podcast. As so many of you mentioned, I expect the SVP to lead the discussion, but I'm prepared to if not. And also thanks to you, I have a lot of good questions to ask regarding company and strategy. Should be an interesting lunch.

Thanks again for the thorough advice. I will post a follow-up on Tuesday evening. Until then...

MTdevotee's picture

Update: the lunch has been postponed to next Tuesday.

juliahhavener's picture

Thank you for posting...I was about to post and ask!!

citius's picture

My thoughts are similar to those of John's (jhack).

When I have been most successful in these situations in the past I kept a number of things in mind.

1. The meeting should be about how you can help the boss and the company more, rather than how the boss and company can help you more. Be honest with yourself. If this is not where your head is at, postpone the meeting until it is. Self-serving motivations easily shine through and tend to be off putting.

2. This is a strategic planning activity, not a tactical one. That is, for your part, try to understand your bosses goals and pain points. If you hear something that sounds particularly exciting, let him know. Secondly, help him understand your strengths and goals. He may recognize an opportunity he had not previously considered. However, it is still too soon for you to form any expectations (see next point). Warning: If you find yourself frustrated that there is no immediate opportunity, review point 1 and your motivations. If no opportunities are immediately obvious ask for a follow-up meeting in a few months.

3. Be patient. This is a strategic planning activity. A good boss will try to match up needs with those individuals most motivated to address them. This can take time, especially at higher levels of the organization. Even if opportunities are immediately present, be patient. Organizational changes and movement can take some time to carefully consider and put into motion. In some cases, some inspired creativity on the part of your boss is necessary to pull them off.

4. Focus on growth in the organization. However, growth need not be vertical. Lateral moves can be just as beneficial to you as the company in the long run.

5. All of my best moves have been those for which I was initially somewhat fearful of failure. These are the ones that ultimately led to the most significant growth (and further opportunities). So, if you are presented with an opportunity that both excites you and scares you, do not let the fear keep you from considering a good opportunity.

6. What is your exit strategy? That is, if you move elsewhere in the organization, what happens to your current responsibilities? Whom can you confidently recommend to lead your team next? If you do not know, you are not ready to move! You should discuss your plan with your immediate boss (but do not abdicate responsibility for creating the plan to him or her).

Good luck!

Mark's picture

I'm sorry this has taken me so long. I regret my absence.

I think you're getting lots of good advice. Generally, this meeting is a big positive, and you are worrying too much about the negatives. Companies know that they lose "high potentials" (more on this below) who feel stalled in their careers. It is normal in almost every career to go through a period - about where you are, when you begin to learn enough to feel like you have a good handle on things, and want more - where they think the trajectory is slowing. Careers ebb and flow. Some zen patience here is warranted.

If I may, please stop referring to yourself as high potential. I know, I know, you don't do it anywhere but here...but that's not been my experience. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, companies often mean a specific group of people when they use that name, and if you're not in it, your using it is NOT seen in a good light. And, if they don't have a program that uses that, it sends a message that you think they should - if for no one else but you. I ffelt that way once - I was wrong. ;-)

It's also seen as arrogant. It may not be...but all communication is perception. Tell yourself in front of the mirror first thing that you're a HIGH POT...and then put your Marshall's baton back in your knapsack. ;-)

Further, it's about the future. That is NOT where your thinking ought to be , believe it or not. I'd encourage you to think less about the future (in terms of what job), and more about results now. I LOVE the idea about HOW ELSE YOU CAN CONTRIBUTE, as tlhausman suggested. Look for a progject that you can do in your present role, but perhaps touches different operational issues...AND other people in the org.

I think you're in a good place, and it's a GREAT QUESTION... glad you had the smarts to ask it. Keep your head down, and build your network, and offer to help more...and things will be more clear in six months.

Well done.

It's good to be back.

Mark

PS: And stay in touch (email is fine, after a handwritten thank you) with that SVP.

MTdevotee's picture

Mark - Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'm humbled (in a good way).

No specific question here, just an informational update for those subscribed to this thread. Advice and comments welcome.

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[u][b]Some new developments since last week:[/b][/u] I'll be bringing 2 documents to the lunch with me: [b]1.[/b] A department briefing per the M&A podcast. [b]2.[/b] An updated succession plan (I am meeting with my Boss on Monday so that he can see the current version before Tuesday's lunch.)

Last week, when the SVP postponed lunch, SVP said "you're not going to drop anything on me, are you? You're not resigning or anything?" I was caught a little off guard but responded honestly, "Absolutely not, there is not other place I would want to work in our industry." I learned later that another person had resigned earlier that day and guess that's why the SVP asked that.

After that, I thought it might be helpful to provide the SVP with a "heads up" of what I was thinking, so I emailed a short list of questions asking about SVP's goals and objectives and how I can best serve the company and apply what I have learned in new areas.

In response, the SVP sent me this:

--- SVP's message---

I have some questions as well...

1. Be clear on what it is you want to do.
2. If I’m having lunch with you, same day, same time, five years from now... What role are you playing in the company...Be very specific.
3. What succession planning have you done for your Dept. In the event you move, on who are the candidates to fill your slot?
4. If you had a magic wand and could make your job absolutely the most perfect job in the industry, what would you change?? Be specific and making more money is not a good answer!
5. You state that you want to make a greater contribution to the company......? Although my goals are relevant in terms of the Organization, you need to decide on [u]your[/u] goals and direction…….Be specific.

Good luck.

---end---

I feel a little thrown off here, because as I interpret his questions, they are all about me spelling out what I want (be specific is said 4-5 times). I want to be careful follow the advice given here and not make this about me.[/list]

tlhausmann's picture

[quote="MTdevotee"]

--- SVP's message---

I have some questions as well...

1. Be clear on what it is you want to do.
2. If I’m having lunch with you, same day, same time, five years from now... What role are you playing in the company...Be very specific.
3. What succession planning have you done for your Dept. In the event you move, on who are the candidates to fill your slot?
4. If you had a magic wand and could make your job absolutely the most perfect job in the industry, what would you change?? Be specific and making more money is not a good answer!
5. You state that you want to make a greater contribution to the company......? Although my goals are relevant in terms of the Organization, you need to decide on [u]your[/u] goals and direction…….Be specific.

Good luck.

---end---

I feel a little thrown off here, because as I interpret his questions, they are all about me spelling out what I want (be specific is said 4-5 times). I want to be careful follow the advice given here and not make this about me.[/list][/quote]

I'd love to meet your SVP. He is definitely assessing you. In fact, it is sounding more like a job interview based on the questions your SVP asks. Be thankful you know some of his questions in advance.

Citius is right--be honest with yourself. Be honest with your SVP when asked about the accomplishments of you and your team of interns. Your SVP may not know of any specific slots for you in the company but he WILL remember you and this meeting. Again, citius is right...be patient.

*rntt is also right...this is a big networking opportunity. When your SVP has a slot to fill and you fit...he will know who to call.

Although you have little time left to prepare: when you answer, for example, question 2 from your list "where you want to be five years from know"...you better be able to respond AND describe how you would proceed to get there.

I genuinely wish you the best for your lunch meeting. You appear to have done good work, your boss is backing you, and now you have an opportunity to network with your SVP.

Mark's picture

Okay.

First, this is NOT a job interview. This is a succession planning discussion. A job interview is for a specific job. He's trying to figure out what to do with you, based on your boss's input to him.

Second, if you're feeling like you're in over your head a little, well, you are.

And, lucky you. You asked for it, and now you got it.

[b]Be careful what you wish for. Heh heh. :wink: :o :oops:[/b]

You're going to mess up a LOT in this conversation. Get used to it now, and recognize that you CAN. But you CANNOT mess up and then beat yourself up about it during the discussion and therefore miss his next comment or question. If you allow yourself to be affected by every single arched eyebrow and grimace, your head will explode. [b]Stay frosty.[/b]

As for the questions, I'd really like to know first how big the company you are in IS, and how many layers between you and the SVP, and whom he reports to. Please let me know.

He means what he says. What is it you want to do? What career path appeals to you? Be careful - think BOTH about what you LIKE doing and what are the approved and highly thought of career paths the company has. The further what you want is away from the paths that are established, the harder it is for him to help you. Yes, unconventional moves are more normal than they used to be, but this isn't media fantasy land, where everyone gets their dream job every time.

Better be ready to name a job title, or the combination of two that are related and how they will be merged in 5 years based on market forces.

WELL DONE on the succession plan. Are you sure that YOUR succession plan is one that follows the company's method/model? Prettying up the naming of a number two may not be enough (but it's surely better than nothing, and you only have a few directs, as I recall). Usually, they include strengths and weaknesses, and plans to close the weakness gaps and build on strengths.

Do NOT TALK MONEY. Praise your boss.

Be cautious about making your job perfect. Think about, "one thing that I think would align my job more closely with where the market is going would be X." Then be prepared to answer his first challenge, which is likely to be either, "what's your data for saying the market needs that", or, "that would mean a change over here in this department, have you thought about that." Please, have thought about it.

Have some goals. Goals describe a measurable end state and a deadline.

And whom are you kidding? This IS about you. You asked for it to be about you.

As was said in Field of Dreams, when Shoeless Joe coached Moonlight Graham, who had been thrown AT a couple of times: "he's not going to want to walk you, so look for low and away. But keep your eye out for in your ear."

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

[b]Stay Frosty.[/b]

Mark

MTdevotee's picture

[quote] I'd love to meet your SVP. He is definitely assessing you. In fact, it is sounding more like a job interview based on the questions your SVP asks. Be thankful you know some of his questions in advance. [/quote]

I definitely hold this SVP in high regard - not just because of the title, but from what I've seen in action.

[quote]Be careful what you wish for. Heh heh. [/quote]
You just might get it! And then do a lot of preparation to make sure you don't waste it! But, it's a good thing! And MANY thanks to the Mark and the M-T Forum community!

[u][b]The company:[/b][/u] Approx. 24,000 employees, Revenues were Euro 3.8 billion last year. To be perfectly candid, I should say that while the company is not listed publicly in the U.S. (so it cannot actually be a Fortune 500 listed company), it does meet the financial qualifications. I chose to use the term because of its familiarity. I'm sorry if it was misleading to say so.

[u][b]Org Structure[/b][/u] SVP is head of U.S. Marketing and Product Management. SVP reports to CEO of U.S. subsidiary and SVP of Global Marketing.

Layers: Me > My Boss (Director) > SVP

Thankfully in my role, I have a lot of visibility to and interaction with Sr. Management in the U.S. and around the world - in corporate headquarters and other subsidiaries around the world. My internal department serves them. In addition to my regular tasks, I do special projects for the SVP throughout the year.

[quote]What career path appeals to you? Be careful - think BOTH about what you LIKE doing and what are the approved and highly thought of career paths the company has. The further what you want is away from the paths that are established, the harder it is for him to help you. Yes, unconventional moves are more normal than they used to be, but this isn't media fantasy land, where everyone gets their dream job every time.[/quote]

[u][b]What I want to do is a big ask.[/b][/u] I see a few people (10-15 that I know of worldwide) doing it already within the company worldwide. They are moved around the company's worldwide locations, running different groups and gaining management experience in multiple countries and disciplines with the purpose of learning specific things in each assignment. This is my dream.

Others are moved around the world in support/project management functions based on global project roll-outs. I would like to do this too. Ultimately I aspire to be CEO (I know I need another 30-40 years, further higher education and some serious accomplishments to get there.)

I know that it is big ask, but it is what I truly want to do. I hesitate to water it down for this conversation - what's the harm in SVP being aware, even if it's not possible at this moment?

My Boss has mentioned over the years how he and SVP have discussed international assignments and when the timing would be right for me. In September, SVP mentioned a possiblie opportunty with HQ to do just that for 6-18 months. I followed up on this, but the program manager (who reports to our Board) is admittedly lagging behind on the program description. In his position, I certainly understand. As you say... until you have an offer, you've got nothing.

It's 12:30 am here and I'm off to get some sleep for now. (Hope you are too Mark and tlhausmann!) Thanks for staying up as late as you did to reply to my previous post. SVP was right - I do need a coach.

wendii's picture

MT

Just a quick note on asking.. I meet my boss' boss' boss about 10 weeks ago, and said, I know you don't have a slot, but I really want a *** job, and two weeks later a slot appeared out of nowhere and I had it.

Last week I told my new boss' boss I want the job permanently. If you don't ask you don't get. It's amazing what courage you have when asking for what you want got you what you want once.

And, it was a coach who got me through my nerves and talking myself out of doing it 100 times.

Wendii

Mark's picture

Make the big ask.

Just don't say, "I want to do what they're doing because it seems cool."

Be able to justify not just why the job is good for you, but why you would deliver value there, AND more value there than where you are now.

Just because it's obvious doesn't mean he'll accept that as an answer.

Rootin' for ya.

Mark

MTdevotee's picture

[b]First: Thank You
I really appreciate the thoughtful and in-depth responses to my request for help. Generosity like that is rare and just one of the reasons this community is so special. Thank you.[/b]

[b]Second: Meeting summary[/b]
[b]1. The "New Millennial" thing was NEVER mentioned. :o [/b]
[b]2. I received some coaching and adjusting feedback (not in the model, but I have specific behaviors to focus on).[/b]
[b]3. It took the wind out of my sails a bit. But now I'm more focused on the next steps.[/b]
[b]4. I updated my Boss at dinner tonight.[/b]
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As Mark advised - I stayed frosty throughout. It wasn't all what I wanted to hear, but I'm glad to have had the discussion.

[b]It was a coaching session with some adjusting feedback thrown in.[/b] I had my briefing and was prepared to talk about results I had delivered and ask the probing questions about new ways I could contribute. We didn't get to that. He led the discussion, focused on my goals and kept saying his were not relevant, it was about what I wanted. We went through my answers to all his questions. We went through my succession plan - to which he had no objections - He was glad I at least had one - and that it was in writing.

[b]I made my big ask about the program with international assignments.[/b] He described the formal programs available and that the people currently in them are generally Director level and above (I'm not quite there yet - not even officially a Manager). While not feasible right now, it could be within a few years. He supported the international assignment idea and my request for a short term assignment within the next 5 years.

[b]I stated where I saw myself in 5 years, how I would go about getting there and my ultimate goal (CEO).[/b] He was very straightforward in literally saying, Ok, so you're at point A now, you want to be at point B in x years, let's talk about how you're going to get there. And we literally mapped out the next 10 years.

His main suggestion was to change the order of the 1st two assignments - pursue an MBA now while I'm in a job that I already know and can do well and then do a short term (24 month) international assignment related to our Global Product/Marketing strategy.

[b]He gave me some feedback that I am too passive.[/b] I asked for examples of specific behavior and he was very clear. He's mentioned this to me before, but I was still surprised to hear it. According to my Boss I have made significant improvements here. Apparently, I still have some work to do in this area. At least I know where I stand and can do something about it.

p.s. A handwritten thank you note will be on his desk by Friday. And, I promise not to write anymore short novels here on the forums. :lol:

juliahhavener's picture

Sounds like things went well and according to his plan (but we knew it would). Very well done!

Don't worry about the novellas, they're good reading and it's good to see how others move through these things. When the opportunity arises, the rest of us are more prepared.

RichRuh's picture

I find your "novellas" to be well-organized and easy to read. Good use of bold to mark your key sentences, numbered summaries at the top, etc. When you're scanning through dozens of items on rss feeds, this really stands out.

And of course, congrats on a job well done at your meeting. :)

--Rich

tlhausmann's picture

[quote="MTdevotee"][b]First: Thank You
I really appreciate the thoughtful and in-depth responses to my request for help. Generosity like that is rare and just one of the reasons this community is so special. Thank you.[/b]

[b]Second: Meeting summary[/b][/quote]

I'm with RichRuh on this one...I was looking forward to your meeting summary and the longer postings are not a problem.

Nice work MTdevotee.

Mark's picture

I love it when I'm right. ;-)

I think a podcast on this is due early next year.

Mark