Forums

Dear all,

I am really struggling and need you to show me the light.

I have an unattractive background: engineering education, 4yrs exp with 3 companies! Covering 3 different fields. When I was in engineering, I thought I could do better in non-technical role. Then I shifted to banking. Now I am in marketing.

Even though my background is not attractive because of frequent job changes, I recently got two offers. One is a marketing officer role in a big insurance firm, salary is almost 40% higher than my existing salary, my task there will be quite routine - preparing marketing materials, product summary etc. To be honest, I am not excited to those except the salary.

The second offer is a business consulting firm with offices in 30 countries, staff number about 200. The pay is only SLIGHTLY better than my existing job. However, I feel excited about the tasks which include market research and helping company on market entry here in Malaysia.

I remember M&M said never accept an offer because of money. That keeps me away from the insurance firm.

My heart calls me to accept the business consulting offer. But I am hesitating because of the low pay. I though most consulting firms offering salary higher than market level. And they have a tiny office here (only 10ppl).

What will you consider if you were me.

Franco
From Malaysia

asteriskrntt1's picture

Take the job that excites you. You will perform better and when you perform better, the money will follow you.

*RNTT

PS - I wish I had two offers right now :roll:

TomW's picture

[quote="asteriskrntt1"]Take the job that excites you. You will perform better and when you perform better, the money will follow you.

*RNTT[/quote]

Let me just quote *RNTT and say I agree.

It sounds like the business consulting might be less pay in the short term but has much more room to grow in the future.

I've actually taken jobs with a pay cut in the past in the name of being happier at work. Not all transitions are about salary. Some truly are about your quality of life at work.

WillDuke's picture

Do you need the pay? Many of us don't take the time to identify what we really want out of life, so we chase money because it's obvious. Don't get me wrong, money is a great lubricant. By itself, money is neither good nor bad, it's just something you do or don't have; like Horstman's Ferrari. :)

You need to spend some time deciding what you want. Then, you need to go get it. Nobody else is worried about whether or not you're happy and living a satisfying life. Okay, maybe your mom's worried about your happiness.

One method I've used to help people is the classic funeral setting. If you were a fly on the wall at your funeral, what would you want to hear people say? Are you on your way there? Which job is going to help you be who you want to be?

Step 2, examine your goals with the following in mind. Most people wish they could HAVE something. If they had it, then they could DO something else. If they could DO that thing, then they would BE who they want to be. Make sure your goal is a [b]BE[/b], and not HAVE or DO.

Now that's a soapbox even Mark would be proud of! :D

pmoriarty's picture

At the risk of sounding condescending, what do you want to be when you grow up? :)

If you are more passionate about one of the two, go with your passion. It makes it a lot easier to come into work in the morning.

Good luck!

TomW's picture

[quote="WillDuke"]Step 2, examine your goals with the following in mind. Most people wish they could HAVE something. If they had it, then they could DO something else. If they could DO that thing, then they would BE who they want to be. Make sure your goal is a [b]BE[/b], and not HAVE or DO.[/quote]

Isn't that a Covey Circle of Influence quote?

WillDuke's picture

[quote]Isn't that a Covey Circle of Influence quote?[/quote]
Good lord I hope not. In college I used to work at a place that he frequented. He was known to all of the staff as a pompous demanding jerk.

I tried reading one of his books once. He even writes condescendingly! I apologize for offending any Covey fans, but it bothers me that people buy his line when he clearly doesn't himself. :x

TomW's picture

[quote="WillDuke"][quote]Isn't that a Covey Circle of Influence quote?[/quote]
Good lord I hope not. In college I used to work at a place that he frequented. He was known to all of the staff as a pompous demanding jerk.

I tried reading one of his books once. He even writes condescendingly! I apologize for offending any Covey fans, but it bothers me that people buy his line when he clearly doesn't himself. :x[/quote]

I'm a fan of what he says/writes in the 7 Habits (not so much the 8th Habit book). I don't equate material with the person who wrote it. I think someone can generate wonderful ideas and content without wanting to be around them... so you can insult him all you want and I won't care ;-) (just for the record, I'd welcome debates of his ideas too!) I actually got more out of his lecture series on iTunes than from reading the book.

His stuff on "focusing on your circle of influence" (in the 7 Habits) says a lot about focusing on what you can be instead of what you can have.

terrih's picture

At last! Someone else who doesn't think Covey hung the moon!! :o

I tried to read 7 Habits and found it so opaque I gave up.

MichaelJSwenson's picture

[quote="WillDuke"][quote]Isn't that a Covey Circle of Influence quote?[/quote]
Good lord I hope not. In college I used to work at a place that he frequented. He was known to all of the staff as a pompous demanding jerk.

I tried reading one of his books once. He even writes condescendingly! I apologize for offending any Covey fans, but it bothers me that people buy his line when he clearly doesn't himself. :x[/quote]

Will,

Perhaps you have had more interaction with Stephen Covey than you let on in your post that would explain why you make the characterization that you do. I certainly hope it's not just the ones you describe.

Because that would be analogous to me, (knowing you mostly through your comments on the forum and our brief time together at the conference), to calling you a “hypocritical blowhard” by pointing out the irony of you writing condescendingly about someone who you believe writes condescendingly. And then if I where feeling particularly snarky, I might follow with something like: “Perhaps it takes one to know one?” :?

For the record: I don’t think you are a hypocritical blowhard.

Nor would I characterize Dr. Covey as a pompous demanding jerk. On the contrary, I have found him personally friendly, helpful, and sincere. And being very familiar with his work, I have found it immensely useful in helping me and others through a broad variety of issues. To help substantiate my characterization of Dr. Covey, here is a very brief history of my interactions with him, his work, and his company:

1. I’ve heard him speak dozens of times
2. I’ve had lunch with him twice
3. I’ve spoken with him one-on-one on several occasions
4. His company, FranklinCovey, is one of the most impressive companies with which I have ever interacted (I’ve never worked for them as an employee). They have demonstrated time and time again, that they “walk their talk”, and are interested in helping their clients be successful.
5. I’m certified to teach 5 of his courses, and have done so to hundreds of people, and have personally received direct feedback on how his content has helped them positively change their lives.

It certainly has helped me, personally and professionally, change mine for the better.

Regards,

Michael

PS: Incidentally, I liked your initial post to Franco.

WillDuke's picture

Michael,

I hadn't read any of Covey's books until a friend asked me to read "The 8th Habit." I did find his style to be off-putting. As I read the book I had the impression that the author was condescending to help out the little people. As to hypocrisy, I have to disagree. I intended to write condescendingly and it clearly aligned with my point. Thus, I wasn't being hypocritical. In my perception, Covey's writing style undermined his topic.

It's certainly possible that I brought some of this impression with me from my coworker's (in point of fact my wife's) interaction with him. Their impressions, however, were adamant.

I certainly wouldn't want to invalidate your experience. It sounds like it has been positive. It's possible that people change over time.

It's also possible for one person to treat other people differently depending on their perceived station. It's possible for someone to treat me well if they see me as a peer, then treat a waiter or desk clerk poorly. I personally find that kind of elitist attitude untenable.

I know that his 7 habits book has been very successful. Even M&M endorse it. I have to assume it's a good book with good content. There's no way I'll ever buy it.

pmoriarty's picture

[quote="WillDuke"]
I know that his 7 habits book has been very successful. Even M&M endorse it. I have to assume it's a good book with good content. There's no way I'll ever buy it.[/quote]

That's a shame, because it's a great book (even though after multiple reads over 15 years I still get hung up on habit 5 - Seek first to understand, then to be understood :) ).

MichaelJSwenson's picture

[quote="WillDuke"]I intended to write condescendingly and it clearly aligned with my point. [/quote]

All I can say is: "Wow!"

Thanks for setting me straight!

Regards,

Michael

WillDuke's picture

I didn't mean to "set anyone straight." I suspect I'm in the minority with my opinion. Heck, it's even possible that I'm wrong!

I know, that sounds like crazy talk, but it did happen once before. I think I was seven and working some Non-Euclidean geometry postulates... :wink:

And I'm willing to be a blowhard, not excited about hypocritical though. :D

TomW's picture

[quote="pmoriarty"][quote="WillDuke"]
I know that his 7 habits book has been very successful. Even M&M endorse it. I have to assume it's a good book with good content. There's no way I'll ever buy it.[/quote]

That's a shame, because it's a great book (even though after multiple reads over 15 years I still get hung up on habit 5 - Seek first to understand, then to be understood :) ).[/quote]

I have to make two points:
1) I think "7 Habits" is so outstanding that it should be almost required reading for anyone looking to work anywhere near another human being.
2) "8th Habit" was about the weakest sequel I've ever seen (including "The Phantom Menace)"