Licensee BadgeTraining Badge
Submitted by BJ_Marshall on
in

Forums

My boss Dave* is working on this large cross-functional project in which one of my direct reports Bob* is a team member. Talking with Dave, he mentioned that Bob has not performed to expectation: Bob has left attendees' names off meeting minutes, and sometimes those minutes have been incomplete. I asked Dave whether he had given Bob any feedback about this, and Dave said, "No."

Should I take any action on this?

I would like to give Bob feedback on his behavior, but I don't think I can. I did not notice the behavior in question. Giving feedback based on second-hand information cheapens the feedback, paints Dave in a poor light (Why didn't Dave tell me this?), and might show poorly on me (Bob might thing, "What, he's too much of a coward to approach me in person, so he's having YOU do it?").

I know I cannot change my boss and will not try to. I'm not even going there.

I think all I can do is let Dave have jurisdiction over this. I'll continue to give feedback to Bob based on behaviors I observe. Maybe what I can do is suggest to Bob that he approach Dave and ask Dave directly for feedback.

Cheers,
BJ

* Names changed. Anyone that works for a Dave and has a Bob as a DR should know this is purely coincidental, and the author assumes no liability for any mistakes made thereof. :)

WillDuke's picture
Training Badge

Dave did do something about it. Dave told Bob's boss, respecting corporate hierarchy and you.

If you believe Dave, and he's your boss so you probably should, you need to talk to Bob. Otherwise Bob's a lamb you're sending in to slaughter.

You don't need to say "Dave said" during the feedback. If posible get a copy of the minutes before you give the feedback. Ask Dave who isn't on the list. Get the specifics from Dave so you can give the best feedback to Bob.

"Bob, can I give you some feedback? When you leave attendee names off of minutes, or deliver incomplete minutes it . What do you think you could do differently?

At that point, he's probably not going to question you. The one thing he might question is "incomplete." It would be much better if you can deliver the specifics of what was missing, or at least a couple of examples. One example is definitely the missing attendees.

But give the feedback to Bob. You owe it to him. He can't succeed without it.

WillDuke's picture
Training Badge

I reread my post and forgot to add - this is what your boss is expecting you to do! If you don't do it, you're not going to succeed in your boss's perception.

BJ_Marshall's picture
Licensee BadgeTraining Badge

I'll talk to Dave and see what I can do. I have my O3 with Bob the day after tomorrow, so I definitely want to get Dave's specific account of Bob's performance before then.

Thanks!
BJ

jhack's picture

Sometimes folks expect a direct's boss to give the feedback. They are following a protocol (real or imagined) that says you let the boss give the feedback.

In other cases, folks are OK with others giving feedback to their directs. M&M have mentioned in the casts that this is preferable.

Just recognize that it might be a perceived protocol, not some character flaw (cowardice) that motivates Dave to come to you.

You could also give feedback along the lines of "Bob, when Dave comes to me concerned about your performance, I wonder if you and he are communicating. I wonder if you know his expectations for your performance...."

Dave didn't tell you not to talk to Bob. Tell him what you do know.

John

madamos's picture
Licensee Badge

Take a listen to this podcast for guidance on how to give feedback to your directs based on information you hear from others.
I recently re-listened to this podcast and it has helped me work with both my team and those that are giving me feedback about them.

[b]Receiving Feedback About Your Directs[/b]
[url]http://www.manager-tools.com/2006/05/receiving-feedback-about-your-direc...

BJ_Marshall's picture
Licensee BadgeTraining Badge

I had to leave work early for a doctor's appointment and didn't get to talk to Dave about Bob's behavior. I'll do it tomorrow. I have a game plan. Thanks for the link to the podcast, madamos!

You know, I was thinking. If I had never found Manager Tools, I would never have had this problem. I would have never been big into giving my directs feedback, and I would have never even thought to ask Dave about Bob. Man, ignorance is bliss. :roll:

Seriously, though. Thanks for the help. To paraphrase Dumbledore from Harry Potter: There is a difference between doing what is right and what is easy.

I'll keep you posted to how things turn out.

Cheers,
BJ

BJ_Marshall's picture
Licensee BadgeTraining Badge

[quote="wmarsha1"]I'll keep you posted to how things turn out. [/quote]

I went into Dave's office and asked for ten minutes of his time. He said OK, so I sat down with pen and paper ready. I mentioned to him how I wanted to make sure I understood the behaviors Bob exhibited, so I could provide Bob some good feedback.

Before I even got to Step 3 (explain the effective feedback model, per the podcast madamos mentioned), Dave said, "I know, I know. I was planning on talking to him. Don't worry, I'll do it today." I guess he's just been busy; giving feedback is definitely not like breathing for Dave, or else finding the time would not have been an issue.

However, I did mention to him the importance of delivering feedback promptly, and I didn't get much response from Dave on this. I'm hedging my bets that this will happen again. At least I have a game plan for if/when this happens again.

Cheers,
BJ

mjpeterson's picture

wmarsha1,
I hope you weren't giving feedback to your boss about his timeliness. Although your boss indicated he would give the feedback, it might be more effective from you, especially if you use the feedback model correctly. You could also win kudos from your boss by offering to do something for him that he does not like or is not good at. Every boss always appreciates that.

BJ_Marshall's picture
Licensee BadgeTraining Badge

mjpete,

No, I did not give feedback to my boss - I know I can't manage him. I encouraged Dave to give Bob feedback directly since they work together. I also suggested to Bob that he ask Dave for feedback.

This podcast was great, and I thank the community again for its support:

[b]Receiving Feedback About Your Directs[/b]
http://www.manager-tools.com/2006/05/receiving-feedback-about-your-directs/

Cheers,
BJ

HMac's picture

This thread makes for great reading. I found it really instructive. Just a follow-up question wmarsha1: Lessons learned?

That is, if tomorrow you had the initial conversation with Dave, would you do something/say something right then and there to get to the outcome quicker?

BJ_Marshall's picture
Licensee BadgeTraining Badge

[quote="HMacNiven"]That is, if tomorrow you had the initial conversation with Dave, would you do something/say something right then and there to get to the outcome quicker?[/quote]

Great question, Hugh! The lessons learned comes from eliminating an assumption off the bat:

[quote="jhack"]They are following a protocol (real or imagined) that says you let the boss give the feedback.[/quote]

As soon as I learned that Bob was working on a team with Dave, I should have established the communication lines immediately. In my O3 with Bob, I would have said something like, "So, how's it going working with Dave?" We chat a bit. "You know, I want to encourage you to ask Dave regularly for feedback on how you're doing on this team. This is a great opportunity for you to learn some new things, and Dave would be a great sounding board for you."

I'd also hit the other end of that communication channel and ask Dave to feel free to give Bob some feedback directly on his behaviors on this team.

Don't think I'd be out of the loop, though: I'd keep my finger on the pulse of this interaction through my O3s with Bob.

Cheers,
BJ