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OK, I have a slight ethical/recruiter question.

I saw an ad online that sounded interesting so I sent a resume. I saw another ad online for another position and sent a resume for that as well.

It turns out that they are for the same position. Two different recruiters (who placed the ads) are now calling me.

How do I tell them and which one do I stick with?

iann22's picture

Have either (or both) actually forwarded your CV to the client?

Until the client has the CV I don't think there is a dilemma.

My advice would be; once the client has the CV from one recruiter, then stop the other. The main reason being the I would favour the quicker recruiter and the one that likes my CV more!

HMac's picture

Tom -

I think ian has this right.

Since neither of the recruiters are working on the job exclusively, this probably happens to them all the time (and therefore, the motivation to be quick).

I understand your ethical quandry. But more important than your standing with either recruiter: I wonder about THEIR standing with the employer. I wonder if either of them has any real relationship with the employer or has made any placements.

Ask.

That might help you determine if either of them are really worth working with.

tomw's picture

Both of them have placed people with this company before. I'm kind of an awesome candidate for the position (so humble, i know) and they both plan to recommend me when they submit resumes to the company on Tuesday.

I just worry that they will both submit my resume and how that will look in the eyes of the company. I also feel guilty now since one or the other recruiter has to lose out.

HMac's picture

Here's one take: if they both recommend you, it's confirmation what a good fit you are.

My gut says you should let it roll. The downside is that you might piss off a recruiter.

But Tom - our DiSC profiles are both "Inspriational" - I laugh at the comment that we tend to be "ends justify the means" people....

-Hugh

tomw's picture

[quote="HMac"]But Tom - our DiSC profiles are both "Inspriational" - I laugh at the comment that we tend to be "ends justify the means" people....[/quote]

No wonder we end up posting on all the same threads.

I never thought of myself as an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. To me, that's Vic Mackey from "The Shield".

This position is probably the biggest I've ever gone after and I'm in a pretty hardcore "paranoia" mode for anything that I might mess up. I wasn't really planning a job search, so I'll be spending my weekend reviewing all the casts and slides on interview preparation.

Oh, and the recruiters loved my one-page, result-focused Manager Tools resume :-)

iann22's picture

i can now see the dilemma ...
[quote]they both plan to recommend me when they submit resumes to the company on Tuesday[/quote]

It is standard practice (at least in the UK) that duplicate resume submissions are removed from consideration.

The reason being that, if duplication happens, then which recruiter will get the placement (i.e. the percentage payments for your employment)?

This leaves the client with a dilemma which is removed by the aforementioned practice.

My advice would be to choose a recruiter (probably the first, and apologise to the second) and do this asap.

Then only have your resume submitted once.

HMac's picture

[quote="iann22"]It is standard practice (at least in the UK) that duplicate resume submissions are removed from consideration.

The reason being that, if duplication happens, then which recruiter will get the placement (i.e. the percentage payments for your employment)? [/quote]

ian: are you saying that the practice is to remove BOTH submitted resumes (and therefore exclude the candidate)?

It seems odd that the company chooses to remove a candidate (losing out on the best?), and the candidate loses the opportunity, because two recruiters have submitted the candidate...

I think in the US we have a established more of a "whoever gets there first" mentality - and companies are prepared to make choices accordingly.

Very interesting, though - and I'd love to hear others weigh in on this..

wendii? Anybody? Buehler????

-Hugh

stephenbooth_uk's picture

[quote="iann22"]It is standard practice (at least in the UK) that duplicate resume submissions are removed from consideration.

The reason being that, if duplication happens, then which recruiter will get the placement (i.e. the percentage payments for your employment)?

This leaves the client with a dilemma which is removed by the aforementioned practice.

My advice would be to choose a recruiter (probably the first, and apologise to the second) and do this asap.

Then only have your resume submitted once.[/quote]

That's what I was thinking as well. I know people who have lost opportunities because two agencies have sent their CV to an employer for a job (these were cases where the agency had their CV on file). The employer, for their own protection, has a policy of reject any candidates sent in by multiple agencies for reason iann22 gives. So, they're rejected.

I've had several near misses myself where one agency has phoned me to ask if it's OK to forward my CV then later that day another agency calls to ask if it's OK to forward my CV, but the description of the role sounds a lot like the description other other agency gave me. In that case I say no and explain that another agency called me about what sounds like the same role earlier in the day. I think I've caught it every time and I'm not aware of any false positives, but I'm not 100% sure.

One thing that makes it difficult is that agencies very often won't tell you the name of the company, worried you'll approach them direct, until after they've submitted your CV. Sometimes they don't tell you the name until you've been short listed for interview. I can understand the fear, but it does mean that when the second agency calls I can't just say "Oh is that the job with Sproggett and Sylvester?" and either tell them I'm already up for that job or to go ahead.

Stephen

kklogic's picture

[quote="HMac"]But Tom - our DiSC profiles are both "Inspriational" - I laugh at the comment that we tend to be "ends justify the means" people....

-Hugh[/quote]

Oh my word. I never noticed this before. I'm 7-6-1-1 also. Weird!

HMac's picture

SO funny that all three of us had the same reaction :lol:

Saving grace: it isn't necessarily evil. I guess I'm O.K. with saying that yes, sometimes, the ends DO justify the means.

What caught my attention is that the DiSC profile says this is something we tend to [b]overuse[/b].

Yikes....

mtietel's picture

[quote="HMac"][quote="iann22"]It is standard practice (at least in the UK) that duplicate resume submissions are removed from consideration.
[/quote]

ian: are you saying that the practice is to remove BOTH submitted resumes (and therefore exclude the candidate)?

[...]
I think in the US we have a established more of a "whoever gets there first" mentality - and companies are prepared to make choices accordingly.
[/quote]

It happened to me, here in the US. I met with a recruiter who thought I was the perfect fit for a position for which I'd applied directly a few days prior. I gave her *explicit* instructions *not* to send my resume. Never heard anything until...

6 months later I was consulting and ended up in the position, replacing the original hire who wasn't working out. In talking to the hiring manager, I was their original choice but had been excluded because the recruiter had sent my resume and they were concerned about legalities regarding fees, etc.

wendii's picture

[quote]and I'd love to hear others weigh in on this..

wendii? [/quote]

Well.. as you asked! The organisations I've worked for have been well established blue chips with prefered supplier lists (ie they have an agreement with certain recruiters only to use them, whereby the recruiters give a discounted rate based on volume expected). The PSL agreements tend to have rules in them which dictate which agency is deemed to 'own' the candidate in the event of a dispute. Candidates have to be submitted with an identifier (Date of birth, National Insurance number) in order to prevent spelling being an issue. It's usually first to submit gets the fee, although recently one of our suppliers was banned and another agency given the fee because the first had acted unethically.

Removing both CVs and therefore missing the candidate altogether sounds (as someone we know would say) Gallatically Stupid. The only reason I can think of for doing that is that it's a small company and they are worried about the implications. Companies with standing contracts with recruiters don't need to do this, because the rules are clear.

When recruiters call you and tell you about the role and ask if they can submit your resume they call it 'will do'ing. So now you know the jargon if you think you've already been 'will do'd :-) Under British law (Employment Agency Act 2003) this is a legal requirement (Reg18) and under Reg 21 they are obliged to tell you who the company is that your CV is going forward to.

As a recruiter I wouldn't tar the candidate with the agency brush. I know who I like and I know which agencies are a bunch of wideboys, but you don't and it's not your fault. If your CV comes from one or two (or more - that happens!) agencies, or from the cowboys, it's ok. Obviously, I might be alone in this since other people have evidence otherwise.

Wendii

HMac's picture

Thanks wendii.

"wideboys"???? :?

-Hugh

wendii's picture
stephenbooth_uk's picture

Thanks wendii.

Most of the companies that I know of that have rejected candidates due to getting their CV though two or more agencies have been small to medium sized. Typically under 150 staff. I do know of one high street bank and two local councils that rejected candidates on the same grounds, or at least that's what the candidate was told.

I'm a little surprised that agencies are legally required to tell us who they are sending our CV to. I've never been able to get the agency to give up the information until I had an interview offer. I suspect it's one of those things where unless they rely on you not knowing the law, just give you a load of flannel if you ask.

Stephen

asteriskrntt1's picture

disqualify a candidate cuz it came from 2 sources? Wendii nailed it.. Galactically Stupid.

If it is a great candidate and you don't have an agreement with a recruiter or both recruiters, split the fee. And if the recruiter was just tossing resumes out there (Gosh, is there an MT podcast dealing with this?), I am sure they would rather get a smaller fee than no fee at all.

*RNTT

lefonquey1's picture

As galactically stupid as it sounds, it happened to me!

I was working with a recruiter for a position with a small software company for quite some time. They checked my references and I met with them several times. Once they found me to be squeaky clean, they presented me to their client.

Upon review, the client found that my resume was submitted to them for a DIFFERENT position by a competing recruiter, with whom I had never spoken.

Long story short, I was black-balled by the competing recruiter and disqualified from the position.

My opinion is you pick the one that seems to have the best relationship with the client.

bflynn's picture

Managers do galacticly stupid things in hiring all the time. Those stupid things cost their companies money.

Ethically I don't think there is any problem on your part. I know the original situation is past, but as a rule - pick one recruiter and inform the other not to submit your resume. If you contacted them at the same time, its a toss up. If one was significantly faster in responding, go with that one. When you do talk with them, be open and tell them why - "I didn't realize this was the same job and I have already committed to go with another recruiter. If you have jobs similar to this one, I'd love to talk with you about them."

Its nothing personal, its professional. Recruiters are trying to get good people all the time. They might not loosing by a slim margin, but karma says it will happen their way sooner or later. Don't worry about it.

Brian

MGoBlue93's picture

Wendii... this very situation happened to me this month. When I called one recruiter on it, he said I should immediately take steps to ensure that only one resume hit the hiring company.

The recruiter told me that if two resumes from the same person, gets to the hiring company from two different recruiters, they both often get thrown out.

Do you think there is any truth to this or is it something a "used car salesman" would say?

wendii's picture

MGo,

If you'd have asked me before this thread I'd have said no.. never happens. But there is starting to be a weight of evidence that it does. So, all I can say is.. never happened anywhere I have worked.

Wendii

wendii's picture

MGo,

If you'd have asked me before this thread I'd have said no.. never happens. But there is starting to be a weight of evidence that it does. So, all I can say is.. never happened anywhere I have worked.

Wendii

Nekka's picture

[color=indigo] Unless you signed exclusive search rights to an agency, you have no obligation to mention you are working with multiple agents. The company did not grant exclusive rights to an agency. You are free to work with the recruiter who gets an interview with the prospective employer [u][b]first[/b][/u]. Are you positive both positions are the same?

If two recruiters selected you for the same position, both consider you a "perfect fit" for the company. That company wants the best fit. If it receives a recommendation for the same person from two agencies, it may well consider it a tip that two experienced recruiters feel [i]you[/i] are right for the job. I think [/color][color=blue]MGoBlue93[/color] [color=indigo] got a "used car" line :) In recruiting, the winner gets the commission. Ask someone in HR! Why would a company ignore the resume of a highly recommended job seeker - especially when the job posting was available to multiple agents? It is more likely the second resume would be dumped than both of them, and what are the chances of both recruiters contacting HR the same day?

If you are selected to interview, simply notify the [i]other[/i] recruiter that you are interviewing with a specific company (no need to mention another agent - you should also tell [u]both[/u] recruiters if you arrange an interview yourself).

Until that interview is scheduled, you have no assurance that you are dealing with one job opening or two and no idea which agent will get your foot in the door [b]first[/b].[/color]